Excuse me for apparently stating the obvious but I did enjoy creating the post.
WOTAN informs me that the Linda knockoff of the NF2 even had a horizontal tail bar. Anyone got a picture?
NEWSLASH!
Reader Paul Vreede has kindly sent me this fab picture of his Linda NF2 copy, in which you can clearly see the rear tail bar [left hand toy]. Wonderful! Thanks Paul.
Never apologise for having fun (unless you are harming someone in the process). I'm sure we enjoyed that post too ... I know I did! And what's life without fun? We have a word for that .... lemme see .... oh, yeah, we call it "work".
ReplyDeleteBut I need to take issue with this latest post. Just in a teensy way ...
It's reasonable enough to credit the origin of TB2 to Derek Medding (for now, anyway). Enough is known abut the origins of the Thunderbirds television series.
But is it justifiable to say the NF2 has it's origin in Mike Noble's 1966 comic strip?
You may say something resembling it appears there. You may even state it is the earliest appearance of something resembling it so far known. But is there enough evidence to say for sure "that is where the design for the toy was taken from"?
Maybe it was. But even if it was, can you know that for sure? Or even be reasonably sure?
I know this is nit picking. But I was tutored in the school of Scepticism (and logic and chocolate eating). Yes, this blog is for fun. But you and others are also doing a GREAT job of collating factual data which is slowly piecing together the real story behind these marvellous toys.
By all means let's say, "This is the probable, or possible, orgin. But we don't know for sure ... yet." But perhaps it's a good idea to avoid saying, "This is certainly the origin."
For one thing, that will be picked up by others and reproduced in various places as the truth. (As a for instance, many comic resources claim the (Lady) Penelope comic ran to 203 issues, because that piece of data is repeatedly copied rather than researched. In fact, Penelope ran to 204 issues.).
Secondly, it runs the risk of stifling further research. "Oh, we've done that one ... no need to look further."
Perhaps most importantly, I just feel we ought to aim to be as rigourous as possible at the same time as having fun! Trust me, a bit of rigour never got in the way of fun. In fact ... oh, never mind. (grins)
Sorry, I know this seems like a rant. It really isn't. Honest. I just feel strongly about this. Let's use the words "possible" and "probable" where we aren't sure.
Or is it possible I am being too touchy here? Probably. (smiles)
BTW, Mike Noble often used reference material as inspiration for his artwork. (TIME magazine, for instance).
ReplyDeleteA point well made Toadster and point taken. I agree and I have amended the NF2 caption to 'Likely origin'. I hope that does the trick. It's always so thrilling to see early art that may have inspired SpaceX and SWORD box art and toy designs - my own favourite area of our hobby and none I get very excited about! The TV21 possible-origins on the blog are largely down to research by your goodself, Mike Burrows et al for the 'Timeline' anyway. It'd be cool to be able to post more in the future if it's out there!
ReplyDeletedoh......'none' should read as 'one'! The lack of edit facility strikes again!
ReplyDeleteThank you for accepting my suggestion, Caped Crusader.
ReplyDeleteI like to see the art too. In fact, I find more and more that it is the artwork that thrills me most. Not just such as pertains to the history behind SpaceX and SWORD, but also the wonderful illustrations on boxes for toys such as the speed boats and the amphibious cars.
Worthy of a large table book, don't you think?
If I may chip in for a bit - I would say that given the number of Spacex toys that bear a very close resemblance to spacecraft and other vehicles in TV21 comic strips and illustrations, I think it's most likely that this is indeed where the Spacex designs derive from.
ReplyDeleteI'm not saying that's the earliest for some of them, or that the comic artists couldn't have been inspired by something else, and would be fascinated to know what. But I do believe somebody's simply taken a large pile of TV21s and your Boy's Own manual and some then-current books on space science and went through them for things that would make nice toys.
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Paul
I pretty much agree with you, Paul. I see that as the most PROBABLE explanation given what we currently know. It is the BEST-FIT explanation so far.
ReplyDeleteBut what I was trying to get across is that we don't know for certain that it is the ACTUAL explanation. I believe it is important to remind ourselves of that no matter how certain we feel.
:) And I agree with you, dear Toad, in that indeed we can't be -certain- unfortunate as that may be. As I've found in my research, the late 60s are like prehistoric times in that few records survive, and even fewer of the people involved (none for Spacex it seems - the Andersonifans are more fortunate). So it's all guesswork based on the few bits we have and what we can glean from the toys and illustrations. And full of "will have been" and "most likely". But here and there the best-fit explanation will have been what actually happened. Most likely. :)
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Paul
@ Woodsy - you found the Linda comparison pic I sent, Paul?
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Paul
That does make me a little sad, Paul. (sighs sadly). I can only hope you do strike lucky and find a rich seam of information some day.
ReplyDeleteBut, ohhhh, does that last post mean we will get to see the Linda version? (sits up eagerly)
That was the idea of sending a pic to his Woodsness - who appears to be AWOL..?
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Paul
Busy having fun and frolics at the start of my six week schoolbreak guys! Sorry for the tardy posting but I've blogged the Linda NF2 copy tonight. Thanks Paul, it looks cool. Never seen any Linda 'Spacex' before and never seen the backing card. Where did the company Linda hail from?
ReplyDeleteNo idea where Linda was from, Paul. Just the usual "made in Hong Kong". The Linda logo does say "reg'd" below it, but I haven't find a trace of it. Prolly long gone, and no records of any kind at Companies House left (they chuck them if dues aren't paid). Plenty companies with 'Linda' in their name but all with rather recent numbers and Companies House doesn't do start and end dates anyway (for free on their site I mean). So, to illustrate what I was telling Toad, once again the only thing we have left is a few toys...
ReplyDelete(And yes, you -have- seen Linda toys before; that green Space Patrol ship copy is by Linda)
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Paul
Thanks for sharing, Paul. Luvly to see that. Tell me, do the inner silver pieces differ between the two pictured NFs? Or has one simply been inserted flipped?
ReplyDeletei had one of these around 1973 and it was an orange and blue version. Its cosmetically identical to the NF2, there are minor differences such as the length and number of the engine nacelles and the shape of the wingtip drop tanks, but bssically the ship is the same. You can see that the cabin windows are moved forward slightly too. Construction was a little more flimsy and the plastic a bit thinner, so none of my Linda toys have survived. I originally had the green Space Patrol, NF2 and a Forklift. All fell apart pretty quickly.
ReplyDeleteLike Wotan says, Toad, it looks similar but is different when compared side by side. And thanks to Wote for the additional colour information; duly noted!
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Paul
Hmm, fascinating to compare these. Thank you, gentlemen.
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